Cristina Francy 0:04
Hey friends, welcome to this week’s episode of “Not your momma’s podcast”. The title of this episode is “Love After Trauma, three tales of three marriages” and I am so excited to have Judy foreman on a Boston Globe journalist and author. Welcome to the show, Judy. It’s such an honor to have you on. But before we dive into the topic today, and this is the first time the audience is hearing from you, can you give them a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are today?
Judy Foreman 0:35
Well, a little bit. Okay. I grew up outside New York City a long time ago in a small town called Pelham. I went to Wellesley College where I met my first husband at the first mixer of senior year. And so I mean, junior year, I mean, freshman year. We were together all the whole way. We went in the Peace Corps together; I had a baby in Brazil in the Peace Corps. Then we came back, we ended up getting divorced. But it was a very amicable divorce. I met my second husband, Tom, who’s a laser physicist, at a cross country ski weekend, which was great. We were together a long time 20 to 23 years, he eventually died about 16 or 17 years ago, from prostate cancer. And then I was determined to marry again, because I love being married. I went on match.com, and a lot of other websites. And I met my current husband, Ken, who is a psychiatrist. So the trauma that you’re referring to was much earlier in my life growing up with a very dysfunctional family, although superficially looked good, but underneath wasn’t good at all. So that was the trauma. And there was a lot of healing that’s taking place since then, which has allowed me to have basically three good marriages, especially the last two.
Cristina Francy 2:04
Yeah! it’s always a work in progress moving forward through like our childhood traumas and things like that. So let’s dive into that. love after trauma, three tails of three marriages, can you go into a little bit more into depth about this topic?
Judy Foreman 2:21
Well, I think one thing that is interesting, and it might be interesting for your listeners, I feel that each of the three men I married was appropriate emotionally, for where I was in the ability to have intimacy, I mean, emotional intimacy. I met my first husband, as I said, when we were basically both 18 and not emotionally mature at all, even so, he was the right person for that time. He was cute, he was nice. He was not angry, like my father, he was nice. And so that was great for what it was, we couldn’t end up really growing together. But it was appropriate. And then as I started, I didn’t really do therapy while I was in that marriage. But after that marriage broke up, I did start psychotherapy. And I’ve done different kinds at different points in my life. And some have been more helpful than others. And I can talk about that if you want. But then I met Tom, my second husband, and he was pretty emotionally available. But and that was probably all I could tolerate at that point, because my family was really messed up in terms of emotions. And then after doing a lot more therapy, I met my husband, who was a psychiatrist. And we have a very close emotional relationship, but I’m not sure I could have done that much closeness until I was ready. So it took decades, given where I started. Yeah, be able to, does that make sense?
Cristina Francy 4:00
Totally makes sense. But I want to dive into what did you do to help, move forward in those traumas, what were some of the therapies that you felt were the most effective for you to overcome these that you had within?
Judy Foreman 4:15
Yeah, I just sort of did regular talking therapy for a while, which helped a little bit I realized how, scared I was if authority figures because my father was very terrifying and sexually abusive. And then I did sort of a kind of cognitive behavior therapy, which was helpful but didn’t really delve into the important stuff. Then I did another kind of therapy and maybe mixing up the order that did delve into more of the scary stuff. And I remember that therapist was very good, and I remember talking we Literally Neil knelt on the floor together, she was holding my hand. And we were talking to a pillow as if the pillow were my father, I was so petrified to say anything to this imaginary father, because I grew up so terrified of my father. I literally thought I wouldn’t survive. feeling those feelings. I mean, it was that scary. So that’s kind of where I started. And then the therapy that has been the most helpful for me, which I’ve been doing for a number of years now is called internal family systems. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it.
Cristina Francy 5:37
I have heard of it; I actually think I interviewed someone on this show that specializes in that.
Judy Foreman 5:43
When I started that, I thought boy, I have not been to therapy until now. So it was has been and still is much more, powerful and helpful than anything I had done prior to that. It’s hard to explain without sounding completely stupid. But the basic idea is for you, for me, we have sort of a center itself. And then we have all these parts of ourselves to like an anxious partner, sad partner, an angry partner something, and they all are part of us. But when we’re really feeling centered, like I’m feeling pretty centered, now. I’m not blended, I’m not stuck in one of those parts, but I can get easily get stuck in one of those. And then you sort of learn to get a little distance on that part, and almost talk to it if as if it were a little child. Why are you so sad? Tell me about it. And you sort of re-establish a relationship with the different parts. I know, it sounds crazy, but it really is extremely helpful. And my husband and I have done it as couples therapy to which is very helpful. Because if he gets really angry, and it seems like out of proportion to anything that’s reasonable, we can both recognize, oh that’s just that anger part, you know, that’s not who you are. That’s just the feeling of the moment. And it sort of detoxifies things in a way that doesn’t excuse it, but it sort of gives you a little more control over it.
Cristina Francy 7:20
Yeah, going back to talking to your younger self, talking to that emotion, why it came up, y to work through it. Another thing that I do personally is, I have a picture of like, myself as a kid on the phone, the background sometimes to like, go back and remind that little girl like, hey, we got this, we can do this, like there’s nothing like you’re full of. And I remember my mom dumped all these, like, photos of me. And just growing up as a kid. And I just started crying because it’s like, where did that person go? like, we grow up. And we, we are different people in different phases of our life. And just like how you mentioned, each husband that you had that perfectly for what you needed, like in that moment, and how you could actually love, to the extent that you could love during those phases of your life. And it’s just amazing how, when you look back, like 20-15 years, how many years it’s like, wow, like we’ve come so far, we’ve accomplished so much. And like we need to give ourselves grace and acceptance that we’ve done so much and come so far, especially with you as an accomplished journalist and author. And like working through those things, feeling scared and vulnerable as a child, like your parents are supposed to make you feel safe and I feel like that’s some of the hardest things to overcome. Like, childhood trauma is when you’re don’t feel safe in your own home. right.
Judy Foreman 8:56
You don’t even really know that you don’t feel safe. It sort of takes getting away from him to think Oh, wow. Some people felt safe growing up. I didn’t. It takes sort of an awakening to realize that lack was there. Because what you grow up with seems normal. I mean, it’s all you know, as a kid.
Cristina Francy 9:16
Exactly You’re a sponge, you’re like a blank slate. You say, things aren’t taught, they’re caught, we pick up on behaviors, but it’s interesting, inside and when we listen to ourselves like Something’s just not right. like, this just doesn’t seem right. Like why life would be this way? even have no idea you can’t like to compartmentalize it or really understand because you only have so much knowledge of the world. we’re like your life and knowledge is a pie and you only have like a tiny sliver of it when you’re born and you’re always learning.
Judy Foreman 9:54
You have no words to explain it to yourself, you just don’t If you can’t get even the distance that works give you.
Cristina Francy 10:04
Yeah, if not for someone listening right now who’s kind of gone through like that same type of childhood experience, what would you say to them if they’re having, troubles moving forward so that they can learn to love in the way that they deserve to be loved and not how they think that they should be loved?
Judy Foreman 10:24
Well, I am a big fan of therapy. So, of groups. I mean, if the PERT, the listener, you’re imagining, grew up in an alcoholic family like I did. My father was an alcoholic. There’s a lot of this groups in every city are adult children of alcoholics. Same for people who are sexual abuse, survivors. it’s not that hard to look to Google around and find groups and finding other people who have gone through what seemed to be similar experiences, is incredibly validating, and reinforcing. I think that’s really the key for me. And that’s, that’s pretty doable. regular therapy, or ifs, internal family systems therapy, which I liked the best. That gets expensive. it’s worth every penny. But some people can’t afford that. And, but they’re just as deserving of the therapy. And sometimes I think the groups like adult children of alcoholics can be very, very helpful. Maybe not as much as one-on-one therapy, which I still think is probably the best,
Cristina Francy 11:41
Judy, but I really appreciate you coming on telling us your story. And I have four questions, I asked all my guests, and I would love to know what your answers are.
Judy Foreman 11:53
May I just mention my book?
Cristina Francy 11:54
Of course, yes,
Judy Foreman 11:57
My book is called “let the more loving one be me“. I’m saying it again. Let them more loving one be me. And it’s a line from a poem. And I really does document how I’ve used therapy and my life as a journalist to really progress a lot from from where I started, and you can get it on Amazon just look up my name to deform and if you’re looking up by name, don’t forget, it’s f o r, e m n, not without the E.
Cristina Francy 12:27
Yeah, I’ll have all the links down below in the show notes.
Judy Foreman 12:31
Oh great, good. Thank you.
Cristina Francy 12:35
So my first question is who and what inspires you?
Judy Foreman 12:43
I don’t laugh I want to say Nancy Drew, but for my generation, the idea of an adventurous sort of detective person who was a girl was female. That was great. I’m being somewhat facetious because she’s a fictional character. But for young girls growing up seeing girls do cool things. That’s huge.
Cristina Francy 13:12
I remember Nancy Drew; I watched that when I was little. And then they had like, the movie that came out. It’s like a long time ago. I love the Nancy Drew. That was a good one.
Judy Foreman 13:22
Yeah, it really was.
Cristina Francy 13:24
Then my second question is, what is something that you wished you knew when you were younger?
Judy Foreman 13:31
Oh, I wish there was something called therapy. I mean, that was so not in my worldview. I mean, I grew up and I would not have known who to talk to maybe a teacher, if there were really nice teacher and there probably were, but my father was quite abusive emotionally, and sexually. And I didn’t even know something was wrong. But if there had been a place in my school, if there had been something in the ladies’ room, the women’s room locker saying, does your spouse or father or brother do such and such to you? Or are you scared of any men in your life? Anything that would have given me a clue that, wow, maybe there’s something going on here? That would have been incredibly helpful.
Cristina Francy 14:27
That’s a good, thing to put out there. Because people like we were talking earlier, they don’t know that they’re in an abusive situation when they’re younger any different and so it’s good to like to educate and have people know like, hey this isn’t normal behavior at a young age so that they can, start the healing process sooner because it’s difficult, working through all those emotions.
Judy Foreman 14:57
It’s great that you know, a lot of the ladies’ rooms have the signs, If anyone’s being do not feel safe at home, if not all this number that’s huge. That’s wonderful.
Cristina Francy 15:08
And then my third question to you is, what’s the essential part of your daily routine?
Judy Foreman 15:15
I would say exercise. As you know, I’m a science writer and I’ve written a bunch of books about science. My favorite one, which is from Oxford University Press is called exercises medicine. And it’s not a how it’s not you don’t do 10 Sit ups a day, it really explores the science of exercise and exactly why it’s so good for your brain. Or obviously, we know it’s good for us in general. But the book goes into specifics. I mean, it’s exercises especially good for mood and for thinking for cognition. And it turns out, there is a specific chemical that is made in the brain only during exercise, that helps certain nerves grow. And those, increase in those nerves does have a positive effect on mood and cognition. And, you sort of know that subjectively if you feel better after a run or something. But there’s no biochemistry behind that. And that’s huge. So I would put that out there.
Cristina Francy 16:22
Yeah, I agree. I am a firm believer in moving your body exercising, I can totally tell the difference in my mood when I work out versus when I don’t. Like, I’m like such a high vibe person. When I work out. I feel like I have more patience. Like I’m a more fun mom. But then sometimes when I don’t work out, I feel like I’m a little bit crabbier. A little more on edge. So, I definitely am a firm believer in that. And then my last question to you is best advice you’ve ever received.
Judy Foreman 16:55
Feel the feelings don’t run away from the feelings. I grew up essentially being punished for the feeling. So I ended up terrified that feelings were dangerous. And there was something wrong with me if I had failed, especially sad feelings, or angry feelings, but mainly sad feelings. My mother was phobic about that. But it turns out, we all do have these feelings and trying to resist them doesn’t work. And you end up in feeling worse. I mean, it’s taken me a lifetime to learn this. And I’m still working on it. But I would that would be my take home message.
Cristina Francy 17:35
Yeah. Well, Judy, thank you so much for coming on this week’s episode of “Not your momma’s podcast”. It was such an honor to have you on and share your story. All of her links are down below in the show notes. Don’t be shy. Go say hi. And I will see you guys all in the next one. Thank you.
Judy Foreman 17:52
Okay Thank you.