CRISTINA ROSE 0:09
Hey friends, welcome to this week’s episode of “Not Your Momma’s Podcast” and today I’m excited me Emily Guarnotta, a clinical psychologist and Perinatal mental health specialists, owner of Phoenix health, a therapy practice dedicated to supporting anyone experiencing maternal mental health concerns. Join us as Dr. Emily shares valuable insights on navigating work identity shifts in early parenthood. Emily, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I cannot wait to dive into the episode today.
EMILY GUARNOTTA 0:42
Thank you so much for having me.
CRISTINA ROSE 0:43
You know, I think it’s, you know, when I first had my kid, it knocked me off my feet. And I’m sure like, first time parents, you know, it’s a huge adjustment shift in your regular life before any, you know, in your experience, you know, returning to work sometimes, you know, from maternity leave. What is that like for mothers today? I know that for me, it was a struggle. And so with your experience, what do you what do you see in today’s society with mothers returning to work?
EMILY GUARNOTTA 1:15
Well you’re certainly not alone. What I see is that the experience of returning to work for a lot of moms today is incredibly stressful. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the book, the fifth trimester by Lauren Smith, Brody, where she coined this term, the fifth trimester to describe that transitional phase back to work. But I think that captures it really well, because we know pregnancy has three trimesters, we know the fourth trimester is that first 12 weeks of a baby’s life. And that’s a transitional phase. And then, often around that 12 weeks, though it does vary. But from what I see, on average, women are going back to work around 12 weeks, it’s just another transition that kind of gets thrown at them. And a lot of women are feeling like they’re having to return back to work sooner than they really feel prepared for. Yeah. So that makes it even more challenging. When you don’t really you kind of just feel like you just started getting into a routine and getting your bearings. And now you have another transition thrown at you.
CRISTINA ROSE 2:15
Yeah and leaving your baby at such a young age and like having, you know, when you leave your baby, you have someone else taking care of them, you know, and I mean, so you’re kind of missing those, like little moments and like you’re making sure that they have, you know, the right care that they need, I can only imagine. I mean, I remember it was hard for me to just walk outside after having my first child, you know, I would cry for some reason, you know, the emotions and everything going through. So I can only imagine like how hard it would be to like have to leave to go back to work. And, you know, we kind of lose ourselves in that identity. And so how does becoming like a working mother affect the woman’s identity?
EMILY GUARNOTTA 2:54
That’s a good question. I mean, for a lot of moms, it’s a big identity shifts. For a lot of moms prior to having their babies, their work might have been one of the most important parts of their life, if they saw themselves as very career driven, and goal oriented, ambitious. And then they have their baby, and then that identity kind of changes overnight. And I don’t know if you’re familiar with the term match essence. It sounds kind of like adolescence, and it describes that developmental phase of becoming a mom. And that’s another really good term to describe it. Because, like adolescence, there’s a lot of physical and emotional changes happening. There’s this emotional upheaval, there’s this confusion around your identity. And studies show that moms actually go through something pretty similar in this period of becoming a mom. So it’s a completely different identity. And that could be quite, quite stressful and uncomfortable for moms.
CRISTINA ROSE 3:54
So how can like a mother cope with the transition back to work and the demands of being a working mother?
EMILY GUARNOTTA 4:01
I think one of the most important things is to understand that it is a transition. A lot of times we want a quick fix, we want to go back day one and feel like we’re you know, we’re back in it, we’re going at 100%. And maybe for some women, it is like that. But I know in my personal experience, and with a lot of the moms that I work with. It’s very disorienting. In the beginning, it can feel like starting a new job over again, even if you’ve been doing your job for quite some time. So I think remembering that’s going to be a transition is really important having those realistic expectations. And I often see mom’s having a lot of anxiety leading up to that day where they go back. A lot of a lot of worry. And often when we feel very anxious, our brains are going a million miles per hour. Sometimes we’re not even really sure what we’re nervous about. So I really encourage moms to take some time to reflect on what but they’re actually feeling concerned about when it comes to that transition? Like, are you know, are you concerned about leaving your baby with someone else? Are you worried about how you’re going to fit pumping into your work schedule? or worried how you’re going to do it all, really get clear on what those worries are. And when you’re aware of that, then you can ask yourself, you know, what can I do right now to try to prepare for that transition. So if I’m worried about how am I going to fit pumping in, you know, maybe I can talk to my boss ahead of time, maybe I can create a rough draft of a schedule, maybe I can educate myself on my rights, you know, try to think proactively about what you can do right now. And in some cases, you’re going to have to accept that there’s just uncertainty. And you’re going to have to trust that you’re going to have to kind of trial and error. When you’re actually in a situation and see how things go and make adjustments, you know, as when you’re in it, often, we don’t give ourselves enough credit that we can actually handle challenging situations quite well as the anticipation that really gets us gets us worked up.
CRISTINA ROSE 6:08
Well and also, it’s true, like, I think we have to remind mothers, especially new moms, like just give yourself grace, you know what I mean, and don’t be so hard on yourself, and like you said, you’re not gonna get it right the first time. And it’s trial and error, but it doesn’t mean like you’re failing as a parent, it doesn’t mean you can’t figure it out. And it doesn’t mean, the problem won’t get solved. And that was something that I really had to work on, too. It’s like, it’s okay, you know what I mean? Like, I’m not going to meet the perfect standard every day. And what even is the perfect standard, you know, and I mean, you’re just like making it up in your head and you, we have to be able to just give ourselves grace and know that, like, Hey, this is a transition period, and it’s going to smooth itself out and take it from someone who was worried like that it does smooth itself out, and then you get into your routine, and then you’re able to really figure it out, and like the adjustments aren’t so challenging to, you know, fix or whatever you need to do.
EMILY GUARNOTTA 7:03
We need to embrace the messiness a little bit.
CRISTINA ROSE 7:08
Exactly. And that’s what life’s about. It’s about being messy sometimes, and learning and, you know, it’s all about seasons and just know, like, it’s just a season of your life, and it’s gonna, you know, look different than next season. So, I think it’s important that we just remind everyone, you know, especially moms, like new time moms, that, you know, give yourself grace, everything always works out, and you just gotta like trust in that, you know?
EMILY GUARNOTTA 7:32
Absolutely.
CRISTINA ROSE 7:34
What about working with mothers who are experiencing like, you know, postpartum depression and anxiety? Like, how can this affect them at work, and I know, you mentioned some things that they can do. So what are some other little things that they can do to kind of help manage their emotions and their anxiety and you know, that postpartum depression sometimes that women have.
EMILY GUARNOTTA 7:54
Women who are experiencing postpartum depression and anxiety are likely going to have a harder time without transition back to work. And that’s because a lot of the symptoms just interfere with your ability to function in the workplace. You know, depression and anxiety can make it difficult to sleep at night to make decisions, it can affect your energy. So that’s all going to make it hard to show up in the workplace. As far as things that you can do. Therapy is really the recommended treatment of choice if you if it seems like you’re experiencing some signs of these things. And even if you don’t have full blown postpartum depression, or anxiety, therapy can be a really good resource to help you get those skills just to navigate that transition back. So I often tell people if it’s never too early to seek help, so if you’re even considering it, you can probably benefit and there’s, there’s really no reason to suffer, if that help is out there.
CRISTINA ROSE 8:54
That’s true. I mean, we don’t need to suffer in silence because we do forget about women, the United States on the fourth trimester, and the fifth trimester is real, too. I mean, this is all new to me. I didn’t even know there was a fifth trimester. So you know, women who, you know, are kind of struggling going back to work, you know, how can how open should you know mothers be with their employees if they’re struggling?
EMILY GUARNOTTA 9:21
That’s a tough question. I would say, it really depends on what your needs are. So if you’re having a very hard time going back and you’re experiencing a mental health condition, like postpartum depression or anxiety, you do have production under the Americans with Disabilities Act, the ACA, so if you need some accommodations, such as you know, to attend your therapy appointments or medication appointments, or you need to extend your maternity leave so you can take care of your mental health. You do have protections under that. I would encourage if anyone’s considering that To speak to your human resources department. And you can also call the ATA hotline and speak to someone there. And they’ll be able to talk you through your specific situation, and let you know what you’re eligible for. Additionally, I think if you’re, if you’re not wanting to go that route, if you don’t feel like you need accommodations, but you’re wondering, you know, should I just let my employer know, so that they’re aware, and they can provide some support? I think that really depends on your level of comfort and your relationship with your employer, you certainly don’t have to share anything that you’re not comfortable with. But if you do think that it would, it would allow them to give you some flexibility and understanding and it would be helpful, then, you know, definitely, by all means, you can share that with them.
CRISTINA ROSE 10:48
Now, that’s great advice, because I sometimes feel like women, we struggle to kind of like, you know, let people in like know what we’re struggling with sometimes. And, you know, how much do I say to my employer, I don’t want to, like scare them, or, you know, what I mean, that I wouldn’t be able to, you know, do the duties that I have to do for work and stuff. So I think it’s important to remind women, you know, speak up, you know, voice what you need, if you’re feeling uncomfortable and things like that. I think it’s important to have that.
EMILY GUARNOTTA 11:20
Absolutely. I mean, they won’t know what you need unless you tell them. So if you’re comfortable sharing that I’ve seen situations where it can be quite helpful to be open about it.
CRISTINA ROSE 11:36
Well, Emily, it is time for the Power Mom Chronicles. And I cannot wait to know what your answers are.
And my first one to you is what’s a game changing lesson life has taught you.
EMILY GUARNOTTA 11:48
I think the game changing lesson is kind of something that we touched on earlier. And that’s life is and motherhood especially it’s full of these transitional phases. And that once you feel like you adjusted to one phase kind of another transition, throws you off and sweeps you off your feet. And so I’ve really learned to embrace the transitions and not fear them. And that’s been the biggest game changer, especially in motherhood.
CRISTINA ROSE 12:16
Yeah. And I think that is really that is a key game changing life lesson. You just got to embrace it, you know, and take it as it comes. Totally. I love that. And in my second question, she was reflecting on your journey, what practical lessons or insights can our listeners apply to improve their own lives?
EMILY GUARNOTTA 12:36
One of the things that, that I kind of talked to other moms about, especially in the context of this going back to work, but I think it’s applicable across motherhood is just knowing that sometimes the anticipation is scarier than the actual experience. So if you’re feeling really nervous about something like this transition back to work, remember other hard things that you’ve done or other times that you’ve been scared of something and try to draw on that confidence, because and I think I touched on this earlier, often, when we’re actually in this situation, we do much better than we give ourselves credit for. So I really encourage people to remember that and to draw on situations where they feel like they have navigated life effectively. And they have managed stressors, and been successful
CRISTINA ROSE 13:27
Offer a piece of wisdom for moms or anyone trying to find their strength and voice.
EMILY GUARNOTTA 13:36
I really liked that quote that nothing lasts forever, especially in motherhood. And I think along the lines of that quote, it says that’s both, you know, that’s both something sad. And it’s also something good that the good times are never going to last forever. And the hard times are never going to last forever. And we’re just all on this journey together. And we’re all going through the messiness together and just to embrace that journey.
CRISTINA ROSE 14:03
Love it, and the best advice you’ve ever received.
EMILY GUARNOTTA 14:10
There’s so much. You know, again, I think this just this transition, that life is just seasons, it’s phases, and we can only prepare so much for the next season. But we really got to live in the season that we’re in and just embrace it, whether it’s winter, whether it’s summer, you know, it’s never gonna last forever and just try to try to find the peace and the joy in each season. That’s lovely.
CRISTINA ROSE 14:39
That’s lovely. Well Emily thank you so much for coming on this week’s episode of “Not Your Momma’s Podcast“. It was such an honor to have you on and it was such a fruitful conversation. All of her links are down below in the show notes. Don’t be shy. Go say hi, and I hope to see you all in the next one. Thanks for listening.